The following is the transcript of an interview with retired Gen. Frank McKenzie that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on June 22, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We go now to the former commander of CENTCOM, which controls U.S. forces in the Middle East, our CBS News contributor, retired General Frank McKenzie. Welcome back to “Face the Nation,” general and- and your former colleagues at CENTCOM extremely busy over these last few hours. From the operation as you’ve heard it described, what are the questions that- that come to your mind about Midnight Hammer and being able to assess its success?
GENERAL FRANK MCKENZIE (RET.): So it looks like it was a successful operation, from what we know now, it’ll take a little while to build the battle damage assessment, and that’ll come out here in the next- in the days ahead, and we’ll get a much better picture. But I think we’ve done significant damage, significant, perhaps irreversible damage, to the Iranian nuclear program. I think right now, though, at CENTCOM, everybody is focused on the next step, and the next step will be will there be an Iranian response? What will that response look like? What can we do to defend our forces, our embassies, our citizens in the region? And what options can we give the president should we choose to respond as a result of an Iranian attack? So they’re extremely busy down there right now, and- but one of the key things they want to do is you want to make it very clear to Iran that we possess significant combat power in the theater and will be able to use it against them should they attack us?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that’s- that’s the hope that they don’t do something. Are you surprised that there has been no retaliation in the past few hours? And where would you be looking as an area of concern? There are a lot of Americans who have family members in the region.
GEN. MCKENZIE: Absolutely, Margaret. So for one thing, I think Iranian decision making is a little crippled right now because of the loss of senior leaders. And as you’re well aware, the Iranians don’t have good succession planning. People tend to go into jobs and stay there for a long period of time while they enrich themselves and their families. So cronyism is what- how you get to the top in their system, which is bad news, if suddenly that person is no longer there, there’s no one ready to step in, so the supreme leader probably has trouble talking to people and getting his orders followed. Now to your question about where they might strike, I think we’re certainly vulnerable in Iraq. I think we’re certainly vulnerable in Syria, and I’m certain that Central Command has done all the things we need to do to harden ourselves against those potential attacks. The same for our other bases across the region. I don’t know that it would be localized to the region though. Iran has long harbored the desire to attack us in the United States. They typically have not been effective when they’ve done that. We’ve caught them in a a couple of plots that are very public, that you’re well aware of. So I think all those things are on the table, but it may take the Iranians a little while to work through this process, because nobody’s excited about going to a meeting in Iran right now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you’re talking about some of the intelligence actions taken by the Mossad to convene some of these leaders and then kill them all at once. When it comes to what the secretary of state said earlier in this program, I asked him specifically if the U.S. would take military action to reopen the Strait of Hormuz if Iran tried to close it. We know that’s being talked about, at least in the public space, in Iran right now. What would that operation look like? Rubio said they’re not exactly talking about it in this moment, but they are worried about the- the Iranians mining it.
GEN. MCKENZIE: The Iranians do have the capability to mine the Strait of Hormuz. We have very good plans to clear that if we had to do it. We work on those plans all the time. It would be a- it would be a blow to world commerce for a period of time, but at the end, the Strait would be cleared, and I’m pretty confident the Iranian Navy would all be sunk at the end of that operation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the CIA- the former CIA director, Bob Gates, former secretary of defense, was on this program very recently, and I asked him about bombing the Iranian nuclear program. He said, when he had looked at it, he thought it would at best delay Iran’s nuclear ambitions, not end them. You have looked at this problem set in great detail. Do you agree that military force is not enough to end the program?
GEN. MCKENZIE: Ultimately, you need a policy decision from Iran to end the nuclear program. So I think the secretary’s right in that- in that- in that position. Now, if- if you don’t get a policy decision from Iran, you’ve got to commit yourself, perhaps, to revisiting striking the nuclear program as the Iranians begin to spread out and- and- and continue to pursue the nuclear option. Here’s the one thing, though, we have pretty good knowledge of what goes on in Iran, and that good knowledge is going to continue. So they’re not likely to be able to do something in secret that would suddenly creep up on us. We- we- we tend to keep very close track of this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But it comes up again and again in the concern, as we were talking about with our lawmakers, this creeping towards a broader war, this creeping towards America getting drawn in to a war that Israel started to take out Iran’s nuclear program. I’m not asking about the intent of the state itself, but what is the end goal here? How do you judge success? Have you even heard the Israeli government or the U.S. government say what success is?
GEN. MCKENZIE: Well, I think we’ve been pretty clear that we don’t want Iran to possess a nuclear weapon. They’re close to possessing a nuclear weapon. I heard all the exchanges back and forth with the- the other guests on your show this morning about how close they might or might not have been, but I think it’s the one absolutely non-negotiable thing here. And you can get that through an Iranian policy decision to not pursue a nuclear weapon, or you can get that through removal of that capability to such a level that they can’t do it. The second case is not the preferable case, obviously, but you- but there are ways to do this. The one thing I would add about the strike that occurred here over the last few hours, it was carefully crafted, narrowly designed against the nuclear program to give Iran room to maneuver, diplomatic room to maneuver if they want to seek a way out. So I think it was very clever. Let’s see what happens. The principal goal of Iranian statecraft is today, as it has always been, survival of the regime. Under certain of these scenarios, if you go forward and the war widens, I think the survival of the Iranian state is very much on the table, and that’s something they’re going to want to avoid, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But as you were just saying, there’s- there’s no clear succession plan that the U.S. knew of at least recently, and they can’t get a hold of the boss. He’s in a bunker. So how do you actually get a policy decision and then can orders actually be given?
GEN. MCKENZIE: So it’s a- it’s a very difficult time for Iran right now. I- I acknowledge all your points, but- but the commanding remains alive, at least as far as I know. He remains alive. He’s probably having trouble having meetings. He’s probably having trouble getting his orders followed, but he still asserts that he’s in charge as of a couple of days ago, and we, I don’t think we’ve made any effort to strike him, nor have the Israelis.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, well, right, and CBS had been reporting that President Trump advised the Israelis not to take out the supreme leader. We’ll leave it there, and we’ll be right back.